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Messages - AAAAPPPPP

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Balance Discussion / Terran can now maintain their normal gases and will be ahead of an eco'ing zerg
« on: February 04, 2021, 05:58:44 am »
With the addition of the construction yard gas upgrades, the terran player can now sit on the 4 gases around their base + the upgraded construction yard without even attempting to get the additional 2-3 gases outside of their immediate base. An eco'ing zerg is now in a state where they will actually be behind an ecoing terran, without the terran even needing to attempt to expand past their normal area. The construction yard buff has been a major buff for Terran with nothing provided to the Zerg that would sufficiently even out this advantage. Terran can sit on those gases and then choose to win the game through either ions or maxed upgraded T3 marines. The Zerg's reward for killing off additional gases on the map is that they die slightly later than they otherwise would. This is another deficit to add to the growing list of recent patch changes that have made Terrans more powerful while Zergs have had little in contrast to deal with good Terrans.

Zerg's options currently:
1. Eco - they will be at most tied with eco'ing Terran players, and still need to be on guard from pushes for which the only defense is hydras (sets Zerg eco back significantly) and infestors (enough to transfuse spines and get upgraded units later on will set Zerg eco back significantly). Every Zerg tradeoff to increase their survivability comes at a detriment to their economy, which does not have the flexibility to allow for it
2. Upgraded early spawners/aggression - As usual, reliant on the non-focused Terran's partners being bad players. If the Terran survives the aggression, they will be far ahead in economy as a team and win before long

Which leaves Zerg's only current winning option:
3. Hope that the Terran team has multiple noob players

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Balance Discussion / If you join a game as zerg and there are 5 good terran, you should just leave the game as it's unwinnable.
« on: January 23, 2021, 07:57:00 pm »
This game is entirely balanced around there being at least 3 bad terran players, the zerg cannot eco their way out of the deficit that they'll be put in when multiple terrans start pushing into large spines. The more infestors they get to transfuse, the more their eco is set behind. If they upgrade spawners to apply additional pressure, shatter will nullify it as useless and their eco will be further behind. Terran has no urgency to expand to an additional gas outside their main 4 due to the construction yard upgrades. The game is decided every time by whether or not the terran side has incompetent players on their team, regardless of how well the zergs play.

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Balance Discussion / Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
« on: January 08, 2021, 04:51:55 am »
Tanklings are still trash. A competent terran can defend from them easily and they put the zerg in the hole too much econ-wise. Only useful against bad players against whom any unit would work

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Balance Discussion / Re: Changes Take 2
« on: December 17, 2020, 12:33:22 am »
Quote from: ZergTriumph on December 17, 2020, 12:13:00 am
I think Speed pointed out the main issue you are overlooking:  mass roach is still the best zerg strategy in 90% of games.  Mass roach is nearly always better than primals or ultras, which are still useless.  Brutas are still useful for countering vets and breaking down walls, but it's almost always better to mass a lot of roaches first.  So the lack of strategic variety is on the zerg side.  As others have said, instead of worrying about pointless early units like tankling and beastling, give zerg something to do in the midgame other than make more roaches than the terrans can handle.

T1 marine push really isn't an issue anymore for big spines.  Almost every terran is getting vets before they attack big spines, because it's more efficient to convert to vets first and that way not lose any (or very few) marines to the big spine.  So the game will continue to become more "one dimensional" with your proposed patch.  Terran will rush vets and zerg will mass roach.

I also think you've listened to the crowd (which used to include me) too much about ion not being viable.  Having tried it several games and seen others try it, ion is definitely still very viable in this patch.  You see it so rarely because most players just assume it isn't feasible, but it is definitely possible for a terran to get off 3-4 ions before the zerg can push them up to the high ground.  Which means if multiple terrans go for ion, it is a viable strategy.  So please don't strengthen terran bunker.  It is fine just the way it is, and as time goes on, more players will figure this out.



Have you played this patch? Roaches are absolute trash now against T1 and T2 marines with shatter, primals are if anything the more winnable strategy between the two because they drain so much energy

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Balance Discussion / Re: Changes Take 2
« on: December 16, 2020, 09:55:50 pm »
These changes look excellent for helping to balance out the game and adding variety. Will have to test them out of course to see how well they all work together, but looks to be a great step in the right direction. Appreciate you listening to our feedback!

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Balance Discussion / Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
« on: December 11, 2020, 03:42:05 am »
Zerg is absolutely underpowered this patch, as soon as 2 terran players get shatter and start pushing the game's over

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Balance Discussion / Re: Game design too flawed
« on: December 10, 2020, 04:06:52 am »
I appreciate you coming around but you were arguing very strongly that zerg was in a great state in the other thread, what changed your perspective?

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Balance Discussion / Re: Zerg is ridiculously weak this patch
« on: December 08, 2020, 10:25:49 pm »
How do you defend from T1/T2 pushes from multiple terrans? Post a replay of you winning as zerg against a team of competent, aggressive early game terrans and prove me wrong.

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Balance Discussion / Zerg is ridiculously weak this patch
« on: December 08, 2020, 04:23:51 am »
Against 6 good terran players the game is completely unwinnable, however even against only 4 competent terrans the game still tilts hard in favor of the terran players. Zerg has 0 effective early game options against terran t1 and t2 pushes- roaches are completely useless this patch and zerg players are forced to tech through to at least primals to have a chance at surviving a two pronged early-mid game push.

The only skill expression a zerg has is picking off extractors with strikelings and transfusing their large spines. If they fail at either of those objectives the game is over at a quicker rate, however even if they succeed at both they still can't impact a terran player without rushing late game tech. The only chance that a zerg player has of winning the game is to hope that the terran players act incompetently enough to gift them the win.

If anyone can provide a successful zerg strategy that relies on the zerg's execution and not on terran incompetence, i would love to be proven wrong.

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