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Messages - Zergie

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1
Balance Discussion / Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
« on: July 30, 2021, 12:38:43 pm »
Skinned unit is a cool idea. If zerg micros all the skinned units away, then the spawner will not be spawning new units anymore after awhile. Need to try it out to know what is the reasonable mineral to give without being too op for the terran.

What do you think about randomly forcing 2 of the top 4 players based on win rates to become the zerg? It will more closely align to the assumption of 4 relatively good terrans vs 2 good zergs. It also removes the reason to leave due to bad teammates. In that case, leaving before 2:15 can be recorded in the stats.

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New Ideas / Re: Poll: What would you like for Zerg Hex?
« on: March 05, 2021, 01:50:46 pm »
Thank you WMaster for the great updates. I really like the new zerg base. It was cooler than I imagined. The new tank is also very cool. I seldom make tanks but now, I always make the tank and upgrade it to the max after neutralising the zerg. No one has been sporing me so I cant say how good the tank actually is against spores. The hydras are also more worth to make. Just a few hydras is able to stop most terrans from pushing. It was very fun doing hydra creep rushes before it was locked behind A1.

This forum has been very informative. Previously, I was making that 4th marine. But now I realised early marines and gen ups are a newb trap. Marines are only good with armory ups. Just make reapers and upgrade gases in the early game and only start marine production just before making the armory.

Ion is op. I can usually kill a hive all by myself by turtling on 2 gases. Thats my go to when I get focus.

As zerg, I find it fun to bully the good terrans, so capacity is important :) I only do the eco game if terrans are turtling or all 3 terrans are good. If all 3 terrans are good, my duty is to be the AI whos most likely going to get crushed.

Some ideas which has been mostly suggested by others with my take on it:
1) Give terrans with > ~30% win ratio or > ~10 games the 2 outside gases (deduct the gas cost to build), marines at the right spots and battery already patrolling correctly. It might encourage terrans to reset so a penalty (gases not producing for first min?) should be introduced to discourage it.
2) Cooldown for infestors feeding on a terran. Maybe infestors can only feed ~100 energy before a ~2 min break?
3) Destroy afk terran players base after first ~5 minutes. Auto kick afk zerg players after first ~2 minutes. Afk can be defined as making less than ~5 units, structures or upgrades during the time period.
4) For the first ~5 minutes, give a ~50% refund to lost terrans unit and structures.
5) Make first ion 50 charges, then each subsequent ion cost 5 less with a min of ~25 charges. That way, if you have to ion all by yourself to victory, the final cost is ~300 charges instead of 360. It will also make the first few ions more expensive so zergs have more time to kill terran. In addition, it allows a bunkered solo terran to almost always have an ion ready for the omega.
6) Give the tank a single target high damage round against units like the omega and which deals no damage to structures.
7) A co-op AI mode for zerg with different difficulties, including an almost impossible difficulty. (e.g spawn a few Torras at minute 20). The hardest difficulty can also be activated once both zergs left (maybe an option for zergs to resign and still be in the game to micro the units) so that remaining terrans can get to test out their defenses.

This has continued to be a very addicting and fun game, especially with the changes that spices things up. Thank you again for the excellent work WMaster!

3
New Ideas / Re: consider recruiting developers?
« on: December 18, 2020, 04:25:22 pm »
There is always open sourcing. Benefit would be that features and fixes for the game can be solved by anyone and WMaster just has to check if it makes sense. However, it will be easier for plagiarizers to copy.

There is a recent plagiarized version released on December 6, 2020 https://sc2arcade.com/map/1/326937/

Description: Originated from the US, mature in China.

The Version 1.2 notes as per below (Its at Version 1.4 now but not much of note)
===========================================================================
Due to the editor, many instant messages cannot be displayed in the game. Here is a special note:
1. Points: +2 per game, +3 for winning game, +2 for choose random , -3 for exit game in 10 minutes
,clear for kill teammates.
2. Resources Transaction: T/Z have both sending and receiving limits, and there are punishment
for request resources,if sending resources exceeds a certain value will not be supported by allies.
3. Compensation:If the Zerg is strong and the Terrans are obviously aimed, there will be compensation
at 8,12,and 15 minute.also new zerg play who lost so many and will be compensated at 8 minute.
4. Heart of the Swarm: There are bonus units for the Zerg upgrade technology, which at Armor 4, 5, 6, 7,
and Attack 20, 24, 31, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100.
Heart of the Swarm will no longer give bonus units after death, and Kraith will no longer be Thorns injury.
5. Ranking: It is related to the number and the winning rate of games played, and related to the performance
of the last 15 games, specifically the offensiveness, defensiveness, and operational ability of T/Z.
6. Garbage games treat: After 30 minutes, check the operation of Zerg every 10 minutes, and the total income
is less than 130,000, 320,000, 660,000, and 1,100,000，and there are 6,5,4,3 Terrans alive, and it is judged
that the Zerg has failed.
7. The upper left corner is the player information, which are listed as player name, total number of games,
offensiveness, defensiveness, and overall ranking;
The two numbers at the bottom, the left is the bonus of the your performance, above 100 increases, below 100 decreases
,the right one is the instance index of this game. A negative number means that the Zerg is strong,0 means balance.
8. The right side is the neighbor ranking, and the players near you are ranked.
===========================================================================

The creator still plays lots of normal zerg hex and the win rate is really bad...
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

4
New Ideas / Re: Buggo
« on: December 18, 2020, 04:10:23 pm »
Currently, when a good zerg sees that I am pushing, they will preemptively kill their nest. Maybe make the starting nests killable by the zerg only if the hp drops below 20% or after ~30 minutes?

5
Balance Discussion / Re: Changes Take 2
« on: December 18, 2020, 03:30:27 pm »
Regarding the changes, I think buffing rarely used units/playstyles and nerfing units that are always used is a usually a good idea. It changes things up and its like it is a new game.

I really like the new zerg base as it gives an almost defeated zerg the ability to turtle and to not lose highground buildings to scans. It makes for an interesting comeback. Maybe give zerg something like a void thrasher when zerg has no low ground structures as suggested in another part of the forum as the counterpart to ions.

For hydras, maybe we can make the +3 take a cumulative time slightly more compared to previously at maybe around 300 sec.

For big spines, maybe transfuse can be set to autocast on selected infestors when they are within a certain range of a big spine so that zerg can micro their big spines to hit the center of the marine ball. Spines could also have a temporary weakened state when its hp drops to 0 which can be revived by an infestor transfuse within around 2~5 sec. This also helps against multiple terrans pushing simultaneously. As demonstrated excellently by Speed, with good micro, marines don't care about the spine damage/splash. Maybe spines can have a state to attack the furthest unit instead of the nearest (Looking forward to Speed coming up with a new micro technique for that :)

For the yard, maybe allow high ground gas to produce gas around after ~20 minutes as that is the usual time that terrans start getting pushed up ramp even if they had already pushed out early game. For low ground, if it actually is bad for the player base, maybe make it produce gas only after ~10 minutes as an additional source of gas.

For the blocked gases, I think its only the 3 outside the base that cannot be destroyed, so you still can get the other 2 gases. Maybe remove vision for the zerg from those gases so that its easier to sneak in the other 2 gases.

Regarding my playstyle, I have already gotten used to pushing out all the time. Early game for me now is all about how greedy you can go with fruit farms/killing back rocks/making fewer marines/more gen upgrades and upgrading gas. Then, get buggo and spire at 11 minutes and then make tech lab to get big spines (not that confident in my micro yet). If too many infestors are ready, upgrade to veterans. Then start killing the zerg economy and then finish the zerg. That is pretty much how I have been playing every single game in this patch. If I have a terran who actively pushes on my side, we usually win.

As zerg, I will first f2 mid, then instantly give control to my ally and money for his first supply upgrade so that we can establish a shared economy. Get armor 1 at around 11 minutes as well as infestors. Then use infestors to feed off the terran. I will then make infused and go from there. I know I will most likely lose in the event that at least 2 terrans on a side know how to push big spines, so I always play with the expectation that I am going to lose.

If I get new team mates, I will give them pointers (the advance ping is really helpful) and treat it as sharpening my skills as I learn more from my losses and if I do win, I will just be happy and play another game until I lose. There is always something new to learn in every new random situation (including the randomness of team mates) which makes this game addicting for me.

I'm excited for this new patch. Thank you WMaster for taking our feedbacks and continuing to improve zerg hex.

6
Balance Discussion / Re: Feedback on 4.0, Problems/Solutions & Suggestions
« on: November 24, 2020, 03:20:45 pm »
When I was playing without chems in this new patch, I did get elites sooner than usual. However I was not used to the new timings and income which most likely affected my performance.

My opening is similar to the replay. I usually get penetrating before overcharge and if there are strikes I will get shattering first. But makes sense to get overcharge first if low on gas because its cheap and offers you faster safety. However, I did learnt to use fruit farms to get the focus instead of using walls. Seeing the 2 ways to take down the big spines with minimal loses was epic. I never imagined it could be done like that. Seeing is believing  ;D I was always using the bubble. I am guessing in this patch, you don't need to build walls to prevent your animals from getting stuck as you can build your animals out of other farms.

I think the problem might be that players are too used to playing with chems and relying heavily on them. For me, its learnt from YT. Just yesterday, Mett released a video showcasing how to win with elites and chem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV0OM4v5KTw&t=2s Mett does have videos without chems but somehow the ones with chems were nicer to watch. Especially the firebat ones because it was so easy.

Chems might make sense in a longer game whereby you invested early at the expense of your army (and your allies. But if your allies are new and not helping as pointed out by Iancula, its a good option) in return for a good economy later on. Also for players being pushed back, they can have a source of gas income. It certainly does not have to be chems. As suggested elsewhere, the back gas can be buffed.

Walls currently will fall to the zerg quite quickly even if you have a good economy as you won't have the gas to level it up. Its good for the zerg who was pressuring early and managed to push everyone back to then be able to break everyone before ion ends the game. I had games where I died to ion and level 30 walls.

Removing chems is a good thing to force players to learn how to push. Of course, learning something new takes time which is why zerg is favored now as terrans who relied on chem have to relearn. Probably after 20 games we will all get used to the new better method of playing. Pushing together is also more fun than going at it solo. Probably will take some time before the general skill level starts favoring terran again.

Currently it looks like T2 is better balanced. T1 was already good in the past. Now what about T3? With the chem gone, terran eco also suffers such that I don't know how to play with T3 in this patch. Maybe lock chem behind T3 + chem upgrade. Then there should be fewer chem rushes which has been proven to mess up your allies. To play T3, you probably need wall ups as well as by that time zerg will have higher attack.
 
What we need are more YT videos on this new patch ;D I will invest my time to watching how its done rather than playing badly. You should post your replay guide on YT to reach more people. I am the kind of person who prefers to watch YT on my phone while doing other things. I would be up to seeing a firebat as tanks push video in this patch :D

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Balance Discussion / Re: Feedback on 4.0, Problems/Solutions & Suggestions
« on: November 23, 2020, 06:20:01 pm »
Hi all,

117 games player here with 74/43 ratio. Was at around 10/20 at one point.

I agree with having some form of chem plant as well as giving back some of the previous defenders ability. Reason for that is the ion game. Currently, we noobs die too fast without our chem and defenders to even contribute a single ion now  :-\.

If chem and walls is not the super optimised path as explained, there should be no harm in having it as a sup par option. We do need an option for newbies to do. Pushing out is a skill that takes some learning and lots of experience to do reliably. Currently I can take down the 2 extractors and big spines (if no transfuses). But while I was learning to do that, I lost my army all the time.

I admit, I was one of those players who thought pushing out was a bad idea when I saw how those players who pushed out usually got overrun and instant quit, while I was busy getting firebats, pushed and usually made more of an impact than those players. I learnt the firebats, italis and ion strategy in game from all the players who were the last to die. But after watching some azwscout, mett and iro videos, I was convinced otherwise. I am getting good at at using marines, but even now I lose my army now and then.

Certainly chem and walls are useless against the pros but, against normal zerg players, there was always the option to hold the low ground and go for a mass elite push at around 40 minute. That was the highlight, winning with the strongest units with maxed upgrades.

As pointed out, this is unranked, so we do need some options that is easy and viable for newbies/overruned/bunkered players to do. Having more options is also more fun than a monotonic game where the strategy has already been predetermined.

Don't really agree with pro/vanilla mode cause that will make the players confuse as to what is in each version. I played a few games in this patch and people were going firebat rushes. Also, forcing changes on everyone is good for testing the game. (and getting feedback)

A suggestion would be to make armory upgrades cheaper. In the previous patch, the top tiered upgrades were all sponsored by the chem plant ;D

This forum is a good place to learn stuff. Tried speed's yard on high ground suggestion and it makes lots of sense. Not much apm required to do that  :)

I gave up after playing a few games on this new patch and kept losing every game as terran. Thats why I'm on forum now ;D.

Thank you WMaster for creating and updating this super addictive mod. I will probably continue to play even if nothing changes. For now, I'm on detox.

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