Zerg Hex Forum

As ion is now, 3 terrans who know how to in-base can kill BOTH zergs in less than 30 min. with the first ion coming out between 17-18 min and then 2nd coming out about 23-24 and the last coming out shortly after, it is impossible for zerg to beat even 3 terrans in-basing, not to mention 1 or all 3 gas turtle. By increasing charges for ion from 40 to 50 you change charge time from 4 min to 5 making the time to fire 3 ions from 12 to 15 min. By changing the ion to 500 damage instead of 600 you add 1 more ion needed to kill both hives. This would be more balanced for 4 good players rather than the current which 2 good players who know how to turtle on all their gasses. As a solo turtle terran in random lobbies I have personally been able to kill a single hive myself without much issue.

Here we are again, saying what zerghex is in our own opinions, at this point we need wmaster to put his foot down and say what he thinks zerghex should be so that we can stop arguing how we all see it should be and then talk about how to balance it in the way wmaster sees it should be. Granted, I dont expect him to come out and say what he wants it to be, but as it is right now everyone has their own ideas of what it should be.

adam is hard smurf, he can easily destroy a zerg single handed if the zerg does not have skill to match him if. rick is not as good but defiantly not someone to leave alone.

Why should middle get gen 3 at the start? Why should middle get special privilege when its no different than the sides besides positioning

As the person who originally presented the idea to mett gaming and got adam on board with testing it, I will explain how the build works. I know zergtriumph talked about it before we really started testing it, but this is my take on how the build works best.

You start off with the hard eco build.
Around 8 min you get armor 1(eco should be 1k+ with eco sharing) and get about 4-8 infestors(I personally recomend 6 as it gives you more to feed with so if one loses some energy its not a big deal).
Then you basically spend you time feeding off the less skilled players, this means you can hit the 700 energy in about 3-4(5-6 if you keep having to pull them back to save them).
When 15 min rolls around you pool for armor 3(should have 2k+ with eco sharing) at this point you should be rushing out 3-4 infused each. (dont need ravs for this to work well)
Once you get your 3-4 infused spawners you should be getting speed 1-2 and 5 attack ups atleast(the more the merrier).
When 17-18 min comes around you should be ready for your first push on a terran with 6+ infused and ups for them.

The idea behind this build is that the aoe zap will be doing most of the work, having some primals as well help speed the converting process up as infused have an attack speed of 1.4 .
With this build you can bide your time if you wanted to and wait for someone to try to push a big spine, then rush some infused into the mix and watch the chaos ensue. after you eat their army its not hard to walk all the way through their base and up their ramp.

This build works even in semi stacked lobbies where 4 people are pushing. (quite well I might add)
I will also say, 8 infused with 10-20 attacks will even kill 30+ elites trying to push. Infused are not so scary in groups of 1-3 but when swarms of 8+ come your way T1 will just pop, T2 will die quickly, and T3 will find it rather expensive to fight. The major difference between infused vs brutas is that brutas take like 2 seconds just do deal their damage while infused instantly deal their damage.

So I wanted to just voice so thoughts on this new patch in regards to how terran units will work before and after. Im not going to get stuck on how the old game will be with chems since they are getting removed, instead I am going to make some suggestions on some things I think would be good to add/change.

Units Energy Usage-
With chems being gone and fbs using 2 energy per a shot, I think this is going tbh a major drain on energy similar to how shocks are(2 energy a shot). With a max gen you can only support about 20-30 shocks without your gen running dry all the time, meaning you will only really be building like 1-2 to put at your 1 space entrance to kill small units that are just piling up similar to how shocks are used to clear clumps of enemies. With reapers being useless to anything bigger than base units, they are not a viable strategy to take late game. With this in mind I think it would be a good idea to incorporate the other units into the energy reduction techs rather than just marines. Eg. Shocks and T1 rins will both receive the energy usage reduction that conversion 1 give, fbs and vets will receive the ones for T2, etc so the units which are currently outside the tech tree(fbs, shocks and tank) could be incorporated a bit more into the tech tree than just 1  or 2 ups for them. which kinda just leaves them as useless units en mass instead making them only really useful in small numbers of like 4-5. This would help them to actually be of more use and make a few more strategies viable than just rin pushing.

Balancing for different skill lvls-
I am still going to put forward the idea of 2 different game modes, 1 for a pro stacked lobby and 1 for a less skilled lobby. The pro one would essentially change some things to make the game more challenging and more balanced around 6 good terrans vs 2 good zerg. Where as, the other would be more balanced around 3 noobs 3 good terrans and 2 decent zerg. granted the one balanced around the weaker terrans would probably played more than the other, however this would allow the more competitive zerg hex players like people from hexNab and the sort to be able to play with more of a challenge. This would make stacked lobbies more fair while allowing public lobbies to be balanced more for new players to get into the game rather than just throwing them into the fire and expecting them to fly.

This is not meant to start a flame war this is just my thoughts on some things I think would be a good addition to the game

So your saying you never played before the new units but you are listening to everyone saying it was better and saying it was better when you really just dont know? I think it was different yes. but better? maybe.

Speed, I agree with you on that one would be less played. However, what you and others who played in "the good 'ol days" where it was just T1 pushes and you only had like 15-20 minutes to win before zerg just ended everything will effectively shoot the games growth in the foot. And the reason, because its going to become the same thing over and over and over again where only a few people will play it at all and your wait times will soar to even longer wait times. You will lose the new players who keep coming in, at that point might as well just stop developing the game because something added was "overpowered". If chem and bats get removed because they are op new players would either A: need to watch all the guides to play B:get taught throughout the game. which both would pretty much kill any new players from staying. Removing would also remove over half the current player base, which would make wait times become quite long, unless you got together with a group of friends who you play with. In zhex current state for the skill that the average player has the current state is honestly not terribly unbalanced. Firebats are quite a bit too tanky for 15-16(or 18) minutes where they should start showing up if there is a good zerg, which zerg should have some ability to help counter them which it does not really have at that time unless you rush strikelings and +2 attacks. if a terran is left alone and makes 12-13 minutes firebats, then its 100% the zergs fault for not hitting them once. to make 12-13 minute firebats you have to sacrifice almost all your defense, just a little pressure and they will break or have to build more units which stops early firebats.

On  the topic of chems, I do think they are powerful but they are also expensive to get, they cost 800 min and 700 gas(counting tech). The current output of them are 2.5/5(output/seconds)[30/minute] per a square. do they need a nerf? yes, if you increase theirs size to a 3x3 (1.11.../5)[13.3.../minute] that would limit how many can be built in base without shooting your min income in the foot. This would put them to about 4 chems in base, which would also knock down their min income by 5 farms as well limiting their eco potential rather than making like +6 in base. just by increasing their size you can effectively limit their output per a square by over half. Now if you decreased their production, by every 1 gas per 5 sec that you drop it they lose 12 gas per a minute which is at current base 120/minute. either of these could drop chems to being less useful then thay are currently. As of now you have to wait for about 1 2/3 minutes before the chem pays off its gas cost.

As for getting ultras in ~15 minutes, I dont think thats possible unless terrans leave zerg alone and even if zerg did get them at that time their eco would be garbage. most people are just getting roaches at ~15 minutes and any who make roaches at 12 just dont have much eco.

on to my opinion of T1 marines. T1 is most cost effective per damage and energy consumption, however there comes a point you cant stack any more T1 marines into you armory buff range and then they become meals for roaches and bigger units. This is the point you should start looking to go for higher tier of marines. As for pushing with them, due to infestors having transfuse now(heard from an older player about them not having it before) a good zerg wont lose his big spines because you came at him with T1 marines. I have seen 20 bubbled T3 marines die to a big spine because the person had enough infestors to keep it healed. With T 1 doing alot less damage than T3 the zerg will have plenty of time to keep it alive killing all your marines you sent out. At this point you need a lot of coordination from your team to even take 1 big spine. with needing to kill atleast 3 big spines to kill the zerg this will become impossible to kill zerg after 20 minutes (if zerg is good) without chems to boost your gas income for upgrades. The reason for this being a good zerg wont let you get side gasses without a fight and 90% of the time will either kill hive early to prevent you from taking buggo or snipe it so you dont get buggo. then you gas income caps and your game is over might as well just leave like RickSanchez does.

and as for my comment "So from what I have been seeing is that heXnab people dont like the current game where there is alot of different tools terrans can use to win vs old version which only had marines." I have yet to see 1 heXnab person say they like the variety thats currently in the game and to just nerf some things. but instead all I have seen is them saying to go back to only T1 pushes and if that does not win then just lose. And yes I have seen others saying chem and bats are OP but they dont say removed them, they just say nerf them or make counters to them for zerg.